Hey guys! I got my survey approved for another 500 participants so if you missed taking it last time here’s your chance!
Please remember while I do need a large number of asexuals to participate, I also need people who do not identify as asexual. In other words even if you are not asexual I…
May 2012
30 posts
April 2012
38 posts
I got into an argument with my teacher yesterday. It was because he said something along the lines of “asexuality doesn’t exist. Its just some bisexual teenagers who don’t want to admit it.”
I did something I would never usually do, stepped up to him and told him that he wasn’t right. I didn’t know what to say because if I sounded like I knew too much on the subject, people would inevitably question my sexuality. (Myself being asexual.)I tried to explain it to him as calmly as I could, but he just wasn’t getting it. He stuck to the idea that romantic attraction could not exist with out sexual attraction. He would nt listen to what I had to say and kept insisting that I do more research on the topic before I argue with him about it. (LOL)
I don’t know what to say to him on monday. I love my teacher. He is the most accepting man I know and actually very smart. Thats why I was so surprised when this came up.
what should I do?
Heck, if you want research: http://www.asexualexplorations.net/home/extantresearch.html
^there’s a list of pretty much all the relevant academic articles on asexuality - not as many as I’d like to see, unfortunately, but still quite a sizable few - NONE OF WHICH HAVE ANY INDICATION THAT ASEXUALITY MIGHT NOT EXIST. Unfortunately, unless you have access to a university or library that has access, you may not be able to read them. If you can, however, then this paper by Carrigan is a good starting place.
Although no research has ever set out to prove/disprove whether romantic attraction exists, there certainly has been nothing so far that seems to disprove it (other than your teachers probably illogical gut feelings), and all the research done so far certainly does seem to suggest that asexuality does indeed exist.
So there’s the evidence supporting the existence of asexuality. Now ask him this: other than his own gut feelings and personal prejudice, does he have any actual evidence to the contrary?I suspect not.
can you still be ace even if you have a sex drive?
because i’ve never felt sexy feelings towards anyone (or anything besides specific basic concepts and even then it’s an aesthetic attract more so) but i have a sex drive and it is the MOST FREAKING FRUSTRATING THING EVER because i cant direct it towards anything and :U
yes of course!
Being ace has nothing to do with whether or not you have a sex drive - in fact, many aces (including this ace here!) do have sex drives - it’s certainly not unusual.
Abstract:
Although biases against homosexuals (and bisexuals) are well established, potential biases against a largely unrecognized sexual minority group, asexuals, has remained uninvestigated. In two studies (university student and community samples) we examined the extent to which those not desiring sexual activity are viewed negatively by heterosexuals. We provide the first empirical evidence of intergroup bias against asexuals (the so-called “Group X”), a social target evaluated more negatively, viewed as less human, and less valued as contact partners, relative to heterosexuals and other sexual minorities. Heterosexuals were also willing to discriminate against asexuals (matching discrimination against homosexuals). Potential confounds (e.g., bias against singles or unfamiliar groups) were ruled out as explanations. We suggest that the boundaries of theorizing about sexual minority prejudice be broadened to incorporate this new target group at this critical period, when interest in and recognition of asexuality is scientifically and culturally expanding.
also, for anyone who can’t access the paper, there’s a summary here: http://unsettleddaily.tumblr.com/post/21963539331/summary-of-that-new-study-heterosexual-views-of
for everyone who couldn’t get a copy:
Accessed via my school’s VPN. I won’t be making it available, but I can summarize it!
“Intergroup bias toward “Group X”: Evidence of prejudice, dehumanization, avoidance, and discrimination against asexuals”
Cara C. MacInnis and Gordon HodsonWill write in this as I go along (issues/important points).
Background/hypotheses:
- First definition of asexuality they gave was correct, but state later that asexuality is defined by a lack of sexuality, rather than as a possession of “socially deviant sexual desires” (in relation to wondering whether heterosexuals would treat asexuals more like homosexual or bisexual people, who have the latter characteristic).
- They note immediately after the former point that asexuals don’t engage in “taboo sexual activity”, which as we know is not necessarily correct.
- The authors suggest that asexuals may be treated even more negatively by heterosexuals than are homosexual or bisexual people, because we may be seen as “particularly deviant”.
- It is also thought that the more individuals relate to their heterosexual in-group, the more they are expected to discriminate against asexuals. Similar for religious fundamentalists.
- Heterosexual individuals, the study suggests, will view other heterosexual people as the most “human”, and asexuals as the least “human” and most “mechanical” of all groups observed, due to sexuality being closely related to nearly all aspects of human social life. (It should be noted that here they incorrectly define asexuality again, this time as a “lack of sexual desire”, which we also know is untrue.)
- It is suggested that heterosexuals may actively avoid contact with sexual minorities, including asexuals, and even express intent to discriminate against asexuals in terms of employment or housing.
- The authors want to distinguish between discrimination for being single and for being asexual. ***VERY INCORRECT WARNING: They state, with utmost assuredness, that asexuals “do not and will not have sex of their own volition, nor desire to”***
Results:
- 1. Heterosexuals were rated the most positively, and asexuals the least positively. “[A]ntiasexual prejudice is the most pronounced of all”.
- 2. Individuals who scored highly on a scale of prejudice had attitudes toward asexuals similar to their attitudes to homosexuals and bisexuals (these seem to be prejudiced toward sexuality minority status rather than perceived sexual activities).
- 3. Those who like homosexuals and bisexuals tend to also like asexuals. The same correlation occurs when homosexuals and bisexuals are disliked.
- 4. Heterosexuals were considered the ‘most human’ while asexuals were significantly considered the ‘least human’.
- 5. In the study on contact and avoidance, heterosexuals preferred contact with heterosexuals. Then, they would rather contact homosexuals than bisexuals or asexuals. Contact with asexuals was desired significantly less than with homosexuals.
- 6. In the study on housing/employment discrimination, heterosexuals were least likely to be discriminated against. Homosexuals and asexuals were the least discriminated against of the remaining. Bisexuals experienced the most prejudice in this category.
- 7. It was found that bias against asexuals is not the product of discrimination against singledom. After controlling for the effects of singlism, asexuals were still significantly discriminated against by religious fundamentalists, those high on the prejudice scale, and those who strongly identify with heterosexuality.
Limitations:
This university sample contained few men, which did not allow for “examination of participant sex as a factor”.
Students’ views may not reflect the general populace (really, if students think this way about us, what does it say about the rest of society?). The authors note that sexual activity is valued amongst university students.
STUDY 2
Conducted within a larger online community to determine whether the previously observed results could be replicated. Larger proportion of males, smaller proportion of students. Furthermore, sought to discover potential biases against sapiosexuals — the thought being that if sapiosexuals (a “relatively uncommon and objectively harmless” group similar to asexuals) are not discriminated against in the same fashion as asexuals, then mere out-group discrimination based on familiarity is not to blame.
Results:
- 1. Heterosexuals were viewed most postively, followed by relatively equivalent views of homosexuals and bisexuals, followed by asexuals. Attitudes toward each group are more positive in this online sample than in the original study.
- 2. Religious fundamentalism, and high levels on a scale of prejudice again correctly predicted negative views of sexual minorities. When controlled for said position of the scale of prejudice, however, it was found that identification with heterosexuality did not lead to higher bias against asexuals.
- 3. Those who like/dislike sexual minorities are again found to like/dislike asexuals, respectively.
- 4. “Uniquely human traits” were prescribed least to bisexuals, and “human nature traits” least to asexuals. Asexuals, as indicated by this study, are seen as least likely to experience “human” emotions, where heterosexuals, homosexuals, and bisexuals are equivalent.
- 5. Contact with heterosexuals was again the most desired, and asexuals the least desired. Desire for contact with bisexuals and homosexuals was equal.
- 6. Singlism was again shown to not be responsible for heterosexual views of asexuals.
- 7. Attitudes toward asexuals, despite being more known than the sapiosexual orientation, were more negative than toward sapiosexuals. Indicates that familiarity does not correlate with attitudes.
In study 2, positivity associated with each group was higher. Men were shown to view asexuals as more animalistic than did women.
(Source)
When talking about people who don’t want sex but consent to it, it’s important to differentiate between:
A. People who do not want sex: they may not care for it, but they do not have any desire not to have sex
B. People who do not want sex: it’s not just that they don’t have desire for it, but that they also have a desire not to to .
In the case of A - such as an asexual person who does not experience sexual attraction but isn’t averse to sex, it is perfectly possible to legitimately give consent, and it’s not “unhealthy”
The problem is if someone who falls under B is guilted or coerced into having sex despite actively wanting not to (and by the way, if it’s coerced, it’ not consesual), which would basically be rape.
Unfortunately, since A and B both sound the same (“people who do not want sex”), it can be unclear which situation a person is referring to, which leads to a lot of confusions and never-ending arguments. So, it’s important to establish what kind of situations one is referring to.
—
As far as my personal thoughts on enthusiastic consent: I don’t like it’s implication that I cannot decide for myself what I do or do not want to do, and what my own boundaries are. I am perfectly capable of deciding when I want to engage in sexual activity, and if I choose to engage in sexual activity even without attraction being present, that is my own choice and it’s really none of your business.
Abstract:
Although biases against homosexuals (and bisexuals) are well established, potential biases against a largely unrecognized sexual minority group, asexuals, has remained uninvestigated. In two studies (university student and community samples) we examined the extent to which those not desiring sexual activity are viewed negatively by heterosexuals. We provide the first empirical evidence of intergroup bias against asexuals (the so-called “Group X”), a social target evaluated more negatively, viewed as less human, and less valued as contact partners, relative to heterosexuals and other sexual minorities. Heterosexuals were also willing to discriminate against asexuals (matching discrimination against homosexuals). Potential confounds (e.g., bias against singles or unfamiliar groups) were ruled out as explanations. We suggest that the boundaries of theorizing about sexual minority prejudice be broadened to incorporate this new target group at this critical period, when interest in and recognition of asexuality is scientifically and culturally expanding.
Whoa, I bet the full thing is fascinating.
With the usual “why are they defining asexuality as not desiring sexual activity”?
The actual defintion used in the main article is better:
Asexuals: People who have no sexual attraction to either sex (and never have), and typically do not engage in sexual activity with others (e.g., a man that has no sexual attraction to men or women; a woman who has no sexual attraction to men or women).
Still not inclusive of the entire ace spectrum, but I can see why they simplified for this study.
And when I get a chance later tonight I’ll be posting a summary of the main article.
Abstract:
Although biases against homosexuals (and bisexuals) are well established, potential biases against a largely unrecognized sexual minority group, asexuals, has remained uninvestigated. In two studies (university student and community samples) we examined the extent to which those not desiring sexual activity are viewed negatively by heterosexuals. We provide the first empirical evidence of intergroup bias against asexuals (the so-called “Group X”), a social target evaluated more negatively, viewed as less human, and less valued as contact partners, relative to heterosexuals and other sexual minorities. Heterosexuals were also willing to discriminate against asexuals (matching discrimination against homosexuals). Potential confounds (e.g., bias against singles or unfamiliar groups) were ruled out as explanations. We suggest that the boundaries of theorizing about sexual minority prejudice be broadened to incorporate this new target group at this critical period, when interest in and recognition of asexuality is scientifically and culturally expanding.
(commentary to come later tonight)
[content note: asexophobia]
I swear I remember an article from a few years ago about a conservative politician proposing a ban on “sexless” marriages, based on the biblical imperative to produce children. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I’m trying to find the article but all I’m finding is stuff from the Onion.
The other thing is, a story about a couple (or couples) who have been denied the right to adopt a child because they are asexual. Most references to this incident seem to lead back to a particular sexology lecture, which doesn’t give any details.
Any help finding more info on either of these would be very much appreciated.
Don’t know anything about the first one, but your best bet for the second is probably to try and contact Olivier Cormier-Otano directly to ask for more information - so far as I know, the mention in that lecture is all the information currently available.
I am still waiting for an asexual to swing by and address why aces have thus far refused to engage intelligently with critiques of their community’s homophobic, sexist, and rape culture-reifying rhetoric. They could also shed some light on the curious fact that a lot of the cultural messages and pressures they complain about have been addressed quite thoroughly by feminist, queer (actual LGBT queer), and even anti-racist movements for, uh, centuries in some instances, but they nevertheless fail to incorporate this knowledge in good faith. Or hell, they could give me one good reason why I should stop questioning a movement that continues to attribute things like sexual coercion, rape, internalized homophobia and so forth to mere differences in personal wiring, as most of their arguments fall apart if you do not accept patriarchal explanations of human sexuality.
Pass it on!
What makes you think that aces aren’t willing to engage in responding intelligently to critiques?
The fact is, the community in general is quite willing to respond intelligently to intelligent critiques - but sweeping generalizations based on individual statements which have generally already been called out by the community as problematic and gross assumptions about the asexual community which don’t even have any factual basis are not intelligent critiques. When critiques are responded to, it’s usually because they are critiquing something that doesn’t even exist.
And yes, many of the societal pressures have been addressed by feminist, ant-racist, and other critiques. However, they have been addressed from feminist/antiracist perspectives as they pertain to women and people of color. Although the pressures may be similar and related, the way they are formed and play out with regards to ace individuals will be different. It’s a case of intersectionality - there is certainly ovelap in issue between these various communities; however, how things are realized in each case will be different. In my experience, though, this has been accepted in good faith when presented reasonably - could you clarify on where exactly you see this disregarded?
and as for this:
that continues to attribute things like sexual coercion, rape, internalized homophobia and so forth to mere differences in personal wiring, as most of their arguments fall apart if you do not accept patriarchal explanations of human sexuality.
um….you’re going to need to clarify exactly what you mean by this, and to which arguments you are referring, because quite honestly I have not seen this type of argument come from the ace community.
But anyway, if you feel there are specific critiques that need to be addressed, my ask box is always open. I’m always willing to address critiques, but it helps if there are specific descriptions/examples.
And I will acknowledge that there can be problematic stuff in the ace community. However, I think it’s not to the extent that it is sometimes made out to be, nor do I think it’s as systematic as it is sometimes portrayed. What is there for the most part seems to me to be a part of natural human variance - in any large enough group, there will be problematic opinions. Aces aren’t exempt from that, not are any other groups.
Signal Boost! if you have any suggestions, please pass them along! And help spread the word!
So I have a final presentation in my queer/disability studies class, and I’m writing it on asexuality! So if you know of any articles about asexuality, or ESPECIALLY articles related to *BOTH* asexuality *AND* disability (or personal experiences! Feel free to message or email me at rah55m[at]gmail[dot]com if you’re uncomfortable posting it here) or even just asexuality, please send me links! Or tell me stories! Help me do an AWESOME presentation!!! (Pretty please!)
[Details after break]
I’ve got a pretty sweet social dynamic going on here at college. My core friend group is a flock of 8-12 people who live in my building, and we spend a ton of time together, whether we’re working or just hanging out. These guys are my primary relationship network, and fulfill the majority of my emotional needs. I frequently joke that I’m pack-oriented, and it’s true — I am happiest and healthiest when I am part of a family of friends like this.
Is it at all possible to have this sort of social structure continue outside of a college-type setting? I mean, I know it’s harder to maintain these sorts of dynamics when you aren’t in a dorm, but I’ve always had similarly-structured friend groups growing up. However, “adulthood” seems to mandate the breaking of these groups in favor of romantic pair-bonding (or living alone while waiting for somebody to pair-bond with), and that thought worries me.
See, I like living with other people, but that has nothing to do with whether I’m attracted to them. When I was younger, I pretty much missed the romantic-sexual component of marriage and thought it was more or less a commitment to live together with somebody you really liked. (I still like that idea, honestly. Committed, long-term, non-romantic housemates would be awesome, though I’m not sure if they’re any kind of practical reality.)
If left to my own devices I actually would just go build some sort of ridiculous commune out in the desert and make tea for everybody. Sounds good to me, at least.
^my thoughts exactly.
Even without a dorm, you can still get some of that sense of communal intimacy through things like social organizations and roommates in an apartment, for example, but even that gets more difficult and less “socially acceptable” as one gets older.
But seriously, as an aromantic asexual, my ideal form of intimacy and connections and human interaction is through groups - right now, that’s met through the ace community, through my anime club, etc.
And my ideal form of primary relationship would be something like roommates - someone (or several someones) who I get along well with, can be friends with, etc. but with the commitment level of say, a marriage. Heck, I’d actually even be open to a marriage for the legal benefits and sense fo commitments, if we ditch the other romantic/sexual/religious aspects and treat it like the legal contract it is.
Like, if you know what a Boston Marriage is, that’s pretty much what I want - although some may have been lesbian relationships, for the most part they were close, platonic friendships between single women who supported each other. Although I’d be open to more genders than just another woman.
I’m not big on the idea of living in the desert, but I certainly might be up for an awesome ace-commune in the future!
I explained to my counselor about my asexuality, and guess what she told me?
“There’s no such thing as being asexual. There are hormone injections to fix that. We’ll get you on those right away, don’t worry.”
smh.
this is when you request a change in counselors.
If she seriously thinks there’s no such thing, and isn’t willing to believe your own experiences and take them seriously, she’s not going to be able to help you.
You can also tell her that science says otherwise: asexuality definitely seems to be a thing, and it’s not a sexual disfunction. Plus, while I’ve heard of many asexuals who had their hormones tested or underwent hormone therapy, I have yet to hear of one who suddenly became non-asexual.
If anyone is really good at giving advice on sexuality, I’d love it right now.
Don’t know how good my advice is, but I’m always open to answering questions!
Julia Prims, of the University Of Colorado Boulder, is conducting research into asexuality for their honors thesis:
This study is intended to examine the cultural dismissal of asexuality and self-esteem, depression, and self-concept in asexually identified individuals. You are being asked to participate in this study because you either identify as asexual or have ties to the asexual community. You will be one of 500 people to participate in this study.
During the course of this study, you will be asked to fill out a questionnaire which will ask you various questions about your identity and experiences as an asexual. If you do not identify as asexual, you will be asked to skip some questions. You will then complete three psychological surveys measuring depression, self-esteem, and self-concept. This study should take approximately 20-45 minutes.
If you identify as asexual, demisexual, grey-a, or as anywhere on the asexual spectrum, please consider taking part in this quick and easy survey.
The plan is to publish the paper in a scientific journal and, potentially, present it at conferences.
Julia Prims, of the University Of Colorado Boulder, is conducting research into asexuality for their honors thesis:
This study is intended to examine the cultural dismissal of asexuality and self-esteem, depression, and self-concept in asexually identified individuals. You are being asked to…
A little wary of its validity, considering the grammar error, but thought I would pass this along to fellow writers of ace-y stuff.
Hi there!
My name is Megan Hansen, and I run a small press, Good Mourning Publishing, that’s working on an asexual romance anthology. I was on AO3 and I love the…
there’s more info here: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/73587-open-call-for-asexual-romance-anthology/
I REALLY hate how people a saying things like “Asexuals don’t experience sexual attraction” THIS IS NOT A UNIVERSAL TRUTH! I hate it even MORE WHEN AN ACE SAYS IT. I know nothing will change by posting this, but CHOSE WHAT YOU SAY Carefully! You will regret it if you don’t! Some of us are pro-sex, Some of us are anti-sex, Some of us enjoy it under certain specifications, Some of us don’t enjoy it but do it for there partner occasionally, Some of us never or rarely act on sexual tension because they don’t relate it to anything! etc. etc. PLEASE IGNORANCE IN OUR OWN COMMUNITY IS A PROBLEM! WE REALLY NEED TO WORK ON BECAUSE IF WE DON’T WE WILL HAVE A HELL OF A TIME BEING ACCEPTED OR RECOGNIZED!
but
that is literally the definition of asexuality
not experiencing attraction towards any gender
wh
It’s the literal definition but human sexuality isn’t so black and white.
I guess people don’t have a better word to describe not actively pursuing sex yet having sexual arousal so they’ve gotta make due.
As has been pointed out before, arousal≠attraction. The capacity to be aroused has nothing to do with orientation, although it is true that arousal can sometimes be a result of sexual attraction (but not always - for example, if I’m aroused a bit by wearing tight pants, it doesn’t mean I’m sexually attracted to tight pants). Many aces may experience arousal without sexual attraction.
And actually, there is a word for people who may experience attraction but not want to act on it: that’s what grey-asexuality is! It’s a word for people who for the most part identify with being asexual, but still experience some level of sexual attraction and thus do not consider themselves to be completely asexual. This can include people who experience attraction but not the urge to act on it, or people who experience sexual attraction only rarely or weakly (as a grey area, there is, of course, a lot of bluriness ot the definition)
So basically, asexuals still do not experience sexual attraction.
However, some people on the ace spectrum (which includes not only asexuals but also grey-As and demisexuals) do experience sexual attraction.
Furthermore, things like being pro/anti-sex, being able to enjoy sex, being willing to have sex, and choosing whether or not to act on arousal have nothing to do with whether or not you experience sexual attraction.
Something I often see brought up in ace!kerfuffles is that asexuals are using ‘sexual orientation’ wrong. That sexual orientation isn’t about how you’re attracted to people, it’s about who you’re attracted to. And I never know how to work around that. Because, technically, it’s true. And,…
Here’s my take on asexuality as being (or not being) a sexual orientation:
Sexual orientation answers the question “who are you attracted to” - and if you are asexual, it just means the answer is “no one.”
And if you think about it, sexual orientation is just as much about who you are NOT attracted to.
Someone who is straight is someone who is attracted to the opposite gender but NOT the same gender.
Someone who is gay is attracted to the same gender but NOT the opposite gender.
In fact, for most people, the gender they are not attracted to may be a bigger deal - a stereotypical straight man is more likely to flip out about seeming to be attracted to another man, while if he just isn’t attracted to a particular girl it’s not big deal.
Also, if asexual people can’t have a sexual orientation (which is silly) do bisexual people then have like, extra orientations? Or do straight people only have half of one?
If anything, people who define themselves as not having any particular pattern for attraction (like some pansexuals) are the closest to having no sexual orientation.
Then wouldn’t that mean that people who are considered to have “too much” sex by medical professionals also oppressed too? That because their sexualities are invalidated because it’s considered not “normal,” to be having a hella ton of sex, they should be considered oppressed…
Hypersexuality is actually characterized as an overabundance of activity or sexual desire, so it can actually complement asexuality well. Have you read forums and community posts? A lot of people characterized as being hypersexual do not see it as a problem about themselves. Pathologizing sexual desire and activity is harmful, but it’s just something not unique to aces that warrants our own oppression.
How frequent is it for someone to identify as “hypersexual” as their sexual orientation? I’m still not convinced this is analogous to asexuality.
ETA: And why does it have to be unique for aces to be oppressed? Most oppressed groups don’t experience something absolutely unique that no other oppressed group has ever experienced. For example, different racial minorities experience oppression in similar ways.
FWIW, I don’t consider hypersexuality to be analagous to sexual orientations such a asexuality. They’re measuring two different things: Hypersexuality is a measure of the frequency/intensity of attraction/sex drive/arousal whereas asexuality is a measure of where attraction is (or rather, isn’t pointed).
Then wouldn’t that mean that people who are considered to have “too much” sex by medical professionals also oppressed too? That because their sexualities are invalidated because it’s considered not “normal,” to be having a hella ton of sex, they should be considered oppressed by the masses of people who are not hypersexual? Asexuals are often characterized as having “Hypoactive Sexual Dysfunction,” but what about our “nymphomaniac” and “satyric” folks who are considered to have “Hyperactive Sexual Dysfunction”? People have been fired due to hypersexuality, do they have their own brand of oppression too because doctors/people think that they have too much desire for sex just as asexuals are considered as having too little?
These quandaries show me something that I think is flawed in the idea that because the medical community thinks there’s something wrong with asexuals, that asexuals are therefore institutionally oppressed. The medical community’s misunderstanding of sexuality is not unique to asexuality, but rather goes to a misunderstanding of a myriad of different expressions of sexuality, and people’s need to categorize it. Having both too little or too much desire is seen as wrong, particularly depending on the intersection of race, gender, sexuality. It’s something that comes with having different perimeters of sexuality and living on the margins of sexuality, but it doesn’t constitute being an oppressed group. Asexuals have distinct needs, but they do not need to be articulated through its own separate -ism of some sort (what would it be called? “Sexualism?”), when it more fits into conversations of rape culture and heteronormativity.
So it’s 5am and I’ll have to come back later to address everything I have to say on the topic, but acouple quick thoughts:
-First, it’s very true that the DSM has a lot of problems with it’s classification of sexual disorders and paraphilias- a lot of is has to do with classifying things that are within the normal range of human behavior as pathologies just because some people got together and thought they weren’t quite normal. However, just because other groups also face oppression/discrimination doesn’t make the oppression/discrimination any less real.
-Secondly, HSDD and asexuality are not exactly the same. HSDD certainly has problematic effects for sexuality, and asexuals can sometimes be classified as HSDD, but it can also cover disorders completely unrelated to asexuality that may actually be signs of something wrong (although, the fact that such unrelated topics fall under the same category is significant)
-thirdly, asexuality and hypersexuality are not opposite ends of a scale. Asexuality refers to WHO you are (or rather, aren’t) attracted to; it has nothing to do with how often/how intensely you have sexual urges (such as the desire for sexual pleasure from, say, masturbation, which many aces still experience). Hypersexuality, on the other hand, refers to the frequency/intensity of sexual urges - not who they are aimed at. The proper opposite of Hypersexuality is indeed Hyposexuality - but not Asexuality. Basically, Hypo/hypersexuality are measures of libido/drive/behavior/intensity/frequency, etc but Asexuality is about who all that is or isn’t directed towards. So in theory, an asexual could in some ways be either hypo OR hyper sexual.
More to come later when I’ve gotten some sleep and am not trying to write a class paper.
So, as a completely unscientific, unrigorous, terrible, and totally statistically irrelevant experiment, I spent about 10 minutes on Omegle asking “What do you call people who are not asexuals?”
The Answers: (number of *s indicated number of reps)
- non-asexual*
- not asexual*
- sexuals********
- bisexuals*
- aliens*
- you*
- people**
- your mom*
- lesbian*
- gay*
- I don’t know***
- stupid*
- people with a sexual preference*
(interestingly, I got gay, bi, and lesbian but never straight)
Obviously, it’s mostly spurious answers, so I wouldn’t really use this as evidence for anything, but I do think it’s worth noting how common people naturally intuit sexual as the opposite to asexuals, which speaks for it’s practicality.
(whether it’s problematic, and whether that outweighs it’s practicality is another matter for discussion)
I’ve seen this happen a few times as of late and I thought it would be ok to make this post…
Is it possible to not noun the word “sexual” when speaking about non-ace spectrum people? It’s rude, and there was a huge scuffle about it last year.
Saying “a sexual” and “the sexual” and “sexuals” is really offensive and not cool.
I’ve come to adopt NASP (non-ace spectrum people) when talking about people who are not ace, demi, or gray-a.
Thanks again everyone
-Fiish
I can definitely see some of the reasons that some people don’t like the word “sexual” (and to the same extent, I can see why alternatives like “non-ace-spectrum” are equally problematic), but out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the word “asexual” as a noun?.
If it’s problematic to call a person a “sexual”, is it also problematic to call someone an “asexual”?
Is saying “sexuals are people who experience sexual attraction” more problematic than saying “asexuals are people who do not experience sexual attraction”
Also, are you objecting specifically to the noun use “sexuals may…” or to all usage (like, “sexual people may” - In general, it is always less problematic to use things as descriptors (asexual people, sexual people) than as reduced to nouns (sexuals, asexuals).
—-
For the most part, I tend to see an undercurrent to the whole “sexual” debate that is not so much an opposition to the word “sexual” in particular, but rather seems to stem from a general fear/discomfort of associating any human with the idea of being sexual - as if it’s a bad thing to be associated with sex. Which is certainly not the case!
And so, while we should continue discussion of possible alternatives (alhtough honestly, most so far seem too clumsy/unintuitive to ever really catch on in general usage the way sexual has - for better or worse), I think it’s also important to consider where this unease with the word is coming from, and whether there might be greater underlying problems with how we view human sexuality that perhaps need out attention more - if you can treat the cause, you don’t need to worry so much about the symptoms.
My unease with the noun “sexual” stems from the fact that I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone self-identify as it. Whereas many people describe themselves as being “an asexual,” I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone call themselves “a sexual.” In general, I am loathe to use terminology to describe someone that they wouldn’t use themselves. I think I’m also wary when said terminology is a nominalized adjective, since people often do consider those to be inappropriate labels (“a black,” “a gay,” etc.). The asexual community/individual asexual people seem to be okay with being called asexuals, and that’s perfectly fine… but I think nominalizing adjectives is one of those things that we should refrain from doing until the group or individuals that we’re describing have shown that they’re okay with the terminology.
(If I’m completely off-base here and there actually are people out there who refer to themselves as sexuals, then feel free to ignore this.)
for what it’s worth, there definitely are people who refer to themselves as sexual. I think I see it a most from some of the sexual/non-ace/whatever regulars on AVEN, in statements like “well, as a sexual, I…” or “actually, I’m a sexual, not an asexual, so” and so on. Part of the reason that “sexual” has caught on is that it’s simply the most convenient, intuitive, and understandable way of referring to non-ace-spectrum individuals. And unlike, say, poikkisexual (which I can’t spell), it’s a word that laypeople can hear and understand. In fact, when speaking to people not familiar with asexuality, I have often heard people stumbling around and eventually generating the term “sexual” as an opposite to “asexual” without prompting. (actually, that might be an interestign mini-ling experiment….)
And as for asexuals - I think we haven’t exactly had a lot of choice about whether it gets used as a noun or an adjective, it just kind of happened and fighting it would be impractical. Still, making adjectives into nouns is a pretty common process in english, so although it may be considered problematic on some levels I think pracitcality tends to win out a lot of the time.
It is true that not a lot of people identify as sexual, but that’s because there’s never been any need to - since most people don’t know much about asexuality or interact with it much, they’ve never known anything else. And if you assume everyone to be sexual, there’s no need to label yourself as such - it’s called being an unmarked majority. And yet, people still identify as hetero/homo/bisexual, which in my opinion seems to have just as much of a sexual connotation…
And of course now I’m going to turn about a bit and say again that there are still some problematic connotations that can come from the word sexuals - in particular, it’s problematic in that it posits asexuals as non-sexual beings, devoid of all sexuality - which is certainly not the case (at least for me). I may be asexual, but I still have a sexuality, and can be considered a sexual being - just in a different way.
However, I’m not sure that the potential problematicness overrules it’s potential usefullness - especially since I consider the possible problematicness not as drastic as that of other words (like, say, if we decided to call sexuals sluts or something instead -that would be a terrible idea and much more problematic)
Consider words such as “he” “she” “white” “black” “mute” “women” - if you delve into the etymology and possible connotations, all of these words can be considered problematic -yet that doesn’t negate their value in discourse as simple, useful, and commonly understood words. And there can be differing levels of problematic-ness.
And again, even with all that said, I think that a good, less problematic, but still intuitive, useful, and understandable alternative would be good - I just don’t think that such a word exists. The suggested alternatives so far just aren’t sufficient to function well in everyday speech. And so, in the meantime, I would rather not demonize the use of “sexual”
and it’s 4 am and I’m rambling. oops.
If anything makes no sense, let me know and I’ll correct it when I’m more awake.
Because I’m really, really pretty damn sure I’m asexual.
But… I don’t.. really delve into the whole sexuality thing???
So I don’t know……
Like I don’t know if I should…………… buy a ring or……..
I don’t know anything.
Thoughts????
well, asexual or not, black rings can also be a cool fashion statement.
Maybe just get a cheaper one (rather than investing in a fancy expensive titanium one or something) and try it out to see if it’s something you like?
I’ve seen this happen a few times as of late and I thought it would be ok to make this post…
Is it possible to not noun the word “sexual” when speaking about non-ace spectrum people? It’s rude, and there was a huge scuffle about it last year.
Saying “a sexual” and “the sexual” and “sexuals” is really offensive and not cool.
I’ve come to adopt NASP (non-ace spectrum people) when talking about people who are not ace, demi, or gray-a.
Thanks again everyone
-Fiish
I can definitely see some of the reasons that some people don’t like the word “sexual” (and to the same extent, I can see why alternatives like “non-ace-spectrum” are equally problematic), but out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on the word “asexual” as a noun?.
If it’s problematic to call a person a “sexual”, is it also problematic to call someone an “asexual”?
Is saying “sexuals are people who experience sexual attraction” more problematic than saying “asexuals are people who do not experience sexual attraction”
Also, are you objecting specifically to the noun use “sexuals may…” or to all usage (like, “sexual people may” - In general, it is always less problematic to use things as descriptors (asexual people, sexual people) than as reduced to nouns (sexuals, asexuals).
—-
For the most part, I tend to see an undercurrent to the whole “sexual” debate that is not so much an opposition to the word “sexual” in particular, but rather seems to stem from a general fear/discomfort of associating any human with the idea of being sexual - as if it’s a bad thing to be associated with sex. Which is certainly not the case!
And so, while we should continue discussion of possible alternatives (alhtough honestly, most so far seem too clumsy/unintuitive to ever really catch on in general usage the way sexual has - for better or worse), I think it’s also important to consider where this unease with the word is coming from, and whether there might be greater underlying problems with how we view human sexuality that perhaps need out attention more - if you can treat the cause, you don’t need to worry so much about the symptoms.
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AVEN Digest - 9th April 2012
Site News:
The Personal Messaging section of the Terms of Service for the chatroom has been updated: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/43063-chatroom-terms-of-service/
Requests:
A journalism student has posted a survey to aid in the creation of an…
So this page is pretty scary. [Sexual Interest/Arousal Disorder in Women]
Here’s the men’s version: Male Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder
Note the differences in requirements for diagnosis.
I usually don’t use the rape culture tag but hell, is it ever appropriate for the differences in those two versions.
The DSM is still very problematic, but it may be good to consider the reason for those changes - typical models of sexual desire and response (such as those used for the original HSDD criteria) are based on men, and often do not work well to describe female experiences, which is why the context for the female entry was revised - under the criteria used for (M)HSDD, most women could be considered to possibly fall under that diagnosis. (you can see some of their rational here)
Now, is this an adequate solution? no. Is this better than leaving it as it was? I’m not really sure. But it’s good to understand the rationale behind it.
That said, the DSM is still hella problematic with regards to almost all gender and sexuality issues.
For some interesting commentary on the DSM/HSDD/SIAD and asexuality, I suggest looking at the Asexual Explorations blog: http://asexystuff.blogspot.com/
you can search by tag for specific topics (e.g. DSM, HSDD, etc.)
Fair enough, but what bothers me is the implicit reflection of the fact that an asexual woman may be pressured into sex, while an asexual man is far less likely to. The DSM assumes (and this is true, which is sad) that a woman with little interest in sex might still be in a sexual relationship — so the diagnostic criteria deal with that — while a man with little interest in sex wouldn’t. And that’s exactly why it’s a reflection of rape culture in society at large…
I’m not sure I completely understand where that conclusion is coming from. Which part are you referring to? is it this?
3) Absence or reduced frequency of initiation of sexual activity and is typically unreceptive to a partner’s attempts to initiate
This is actually in response to the observation that many women do not always experience “spontaneous” sexual desire, but may have “responsive desire” - their desire becomes aroused in response to physical stimuli (an example of this is would be someone who, say, is not really thinking about having sex with a partner, but consents when the partner is interested, and after activity has begun begins to actively desire it more, instead of just being ok with it.) (I’m explaing this kinda badly, sorry)
So, while I can see why it might look like it’s because of relationship differences, that’s not really where it’s coming form.
And overall, I’s say the DSM has become better in this regard, as previous HSDD definitions in the DSM-IV (which applied to both men and women) still had a clause dictating diagnose criteria as “The disturbance causes marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.” - basically, if someone’s partner had greater levels of sexual desire, and this caused distress in the relaitonship, then the person with lower levels of desire could be considered to have a “disorder” - whether it caused them any personal distress or not. I consider getting that clause removed to be a great victory.
And also, it’s worth keeping mind that it’s not just asexuals who are affected by this - it’s anyone who might be seen as having “too low” levels of desire, which includes many many people who are not asexual - including, under some estimates, up to 2/3 of the female population! (and when you find that 2/3 of a population have non-normative levels of desire, your standards for normative desire are obviously skewed)
Here’s the men’s version: Male Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder
Note the differences in requirements for diagnosis.
I usually don’t use the rape culture tag but hell, is it ever appropriate for the differences in those two versions.
The DSM is still very problematic, but it may be good to consider the reason for those changes - typical models of sexual desire and response (such as those used for the original HSDD criteria) are based on men, and often do not work well to describe female experiences, which is why the context for the female entry was revised - under the criteria used for (M)HSDD, most women could be considered to possibly fall under that diagnosis. (you can see some of their rational here)
Now, is this an adequate solution? no. Is this better than leaving it as it was? I’m not really sure. But it’s good to understand the rationale behind it.
That said, the DSM is still hella problematic with regards to almost all gender and sexuality issues.
For some interesting commentary on the DSM/HSDD/SIAD and asexuality, I suggest looking at the Asexual Explorations blog: http://asexystuff.blogspot.com/
you can search by tag for specific topics (e.g. DSM, HSDD, etc.)
jtoday asked you:
As a psych major you learn that anything in the DSM is only a “disorder” if one thing is present - it causes the patient DISTRESS or DISRUPTS their everyday life. If someone, say, was sexually active and enjoyed it, and then suddenly couldn’t, and it was causing them issues in their personal life, it would be that disorder. For asexual people whose lives/happiness are not affected by their disinterest in sex, it wouldn’t be a disorder. The DSM mostly exists to classify disorders for insurance. So if an asexual person went to see a therapist to deal with their stress/anxiety/depressing centering around their asexuality, the therapist WOULD put that down as a “disorder” just so the patient could get insurance coverage. But the actual therapy could be about accepting their sexuality, and arranging their life so that it causes them less stress. If that makes sense. So while the words “abnormal” and “disorder” are harmful, it’s not as drastic as it sounds? I suppose that’s my point?
Okay, first, I want to point everyone in the direction of the official DSM-5 website, where the various sexual dysfunctions are listed: go here. As you can see, listed there are Sexual Interest/Arousal Disorder in Women, Male Hypoactive Sexual Desire Disorder, and Other Specified Sexual Dysfunction. Those are the ones relevant to asexuals particularly. The others all have to do with more obviously physical/medical issues: erectile dysfunction, early/late ejaculation, genito-pelvic pain during penetration, substance-induced sexual dysfunction, sexual dysfunction related to a known medical issue, etc. I have read the descriptions of MHSDD and SIAD in Women and the “Other” and yes, one of the listed symptoms under each is, “causes clinically significant distress or impairment.”
But here’s the problem. First of all, the world is full of assholes, and some of those assholes are therapists. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve heard from asexuals, male and female and otherwise, who came out to a therapist only to have their identity dismissed, questioned, pathologized, etc. Having these new categories in the DSM? Isn’t going to make those situations any better. Those asshole, ignorant therapists who have never heard of asexuality or who simply don’t take it seriously do not need an official manual circulated throughout their professional community that they can point at and say, “Oh, look, it says right there that if you don’t want to fuck or if you don’t have a libido or if you don’t masturbate or if you don’t get aroused, there is something medically or psychologically wrong with you.” If homosexuality was still listed as a mental disorder or a medical disorder in any sort of major medical text, the queer community would be up in arms about that, and they’d have a right to be. I understand that there are legitimate cases where lack of interest in sex, loss of libido, lack of arousal response, etc are indeed problematic and can be treated and cured, but the asexual community doesn’t have the advantage of being a widely known, widely accepted (as real, not necessarily good) demographic, which means that our orientation and our experiences linked to that orientation can too easily get lost in the sexual majority’s treatment of sexual dysfunction. They’re already inclined to treat asexuality, willful celibacy, sex-aversion, lack of libido, lack of arousal responses, etc as innately pathological without actual medical support for that opinion, just because of our cultural consciousness about sex. Jesus Christ, some sexual people watched that episode of House, for fuck’s sake, and took it seriously! “Oh, a medical doctor on a TV show said that asexuality is bullshit, so that means it is!” People are idiots. And they’re idiots who are narrow-minded about sex and sexuality and relationships and love and intimacy right out of the gate. Medical doctors and psychologists and psychiatrists who believe that asexuality is bullshit and celibacy is wrong, etc—of which there are many because being a medical professional does not make you infallible or open-minded or anything other than a medical professional, really—only serve to confirm the public’s attitudes about sex and intimacy, etc.
Second of all, being an asexual in this world is fucking hard. And for many, if not most of us, we will inevitably go through a stage or periodic phases, where we DO feel distress about being asexual. Especially those of us who are celibate, sex-aversive, etc. We feel distress because we’re invisible, misunderstood, rejected, isolated from a physical community, have no media representation validating our identities and experiences, and because many of us want to have intimate, loving relationships with other people but can’t or don’t because we’re surrounded by sexual people who have no concept of how to relate to other humans beings in the ways we want to relate. Many of us suffer a lot of emotional pain over the possibility that we will always be alone and unloved and unattached, unless we agree to fuck, and those of us who are sex-aversive or repulsed either don’t want to do that or can’t do that. And that relationship fuckery is a legitimate reason for emotional and psychic pain! Human beings are social creatures. We have built-in intimacy needs. Without love and care and affection, we literally die.
So let’s say you’re a celibate asexual who never wants to have sex and you go to your therapist and you say, “I’m really depressed because I want to be loved but I’m an asexual and I can’t get romantically involved with sexual people, without fucking them, and I can’t form a primary platonic relationship with any of them either because they don’t even understand that concept or accept it and I don’t know any other asexuals and I don’t know how to meet other asexuals in real life, so I feel intensely alone and lonely and I’m afraid I’ll spend the rest of my life this way.”
And your therapist, who’s ignorant or an asshole, says, “Let’s explore why sex is a problem for you because if you can get over that, then you can be normal and have normal romantic-sexual primary relationships and live happily ever after just like the rest of us. Oh, look, the DSM says this is your problem.”
How many therapists are going to question the entire cultural/sociological system of sex supremacy and compulsory sexuality and romance supremacy and the view that sex and romance are innately linked? How many therapists are going to see that the problem isn’t the asexual person’s orientation but the rest of the world’s treatment of everything that orientation implies?
A queer person goes to a therapist and expresses deep psychological suffering over their queer identity, the therapist is quite likely to recognize that the reason this person’s in pain is not because being queer is an innately painful thing but because being queer in a homophobic, heterosexist society is a painful thing. If society were totally cool with queerness on every level—socially, legally, culturally, religiously, etc—how many queer people would you have in therapy, being depressed and suicidal over their sexuality? Probably not that many. And all of that is immediately clear to us. We know homosexuality and bisexuality and transgender identity are not mental illnesses. (Yeah, a lot of homophobic/transphobic people in America would say otherwise, but that’s the point: it’s their own prejudices, not the identities themselves, that are the problem).
But with asexuality? With celibacy? With the idea that romance can be nonsexual and nonromantic love can be primary? How many sexual people get that? How many sexual people have even HEARD of those concepts? A fucking negligible percentage.
This culture is so intensely sex supremacist (and romance supremacist) that no matter where you go and no matter who you talk to, no matter what their backgrounds are—conservative, liberal, gay, straight, male, female, religious, atheist, whatever—the likeliest reaction an asexual (especially a sex-aversive asexual who wants primary nonsexual love and intimacy) will get is something along the lines of, “That’s not normal, that’s not right, that’s unnatural, that’s caused by some separate issue, sex is the greatest and most important thing in the history of existence, why don’t you see that, what’s wrong with you?”
Who wouldn’t feel like shit if that’s what they constantly had to hear about themselves?
And therapy isn’t going to fix that. There is no immediate solution to that. There’s no way to magically snap our fingers and make a loving, compatible partner appear, there’s no way to snap our fingers and change the way our entire society functions and thinks, there’s also not a way to instantly transform ourselves into romantic-sexual people with normative ideas about relationships. So basically, there is justification for a celibate asexual person to feel hopeless and depressed. Our pain is not an overreaction. We are not exaggerating the seriousness of our circumstances. Our pain does not come from chemical imbalances in the brain or an inability to self-soothe or whatever. It comes from being in a really shitty situation, much of which we have no control over.
It’s not a matter of a therapist or anyone else “helping” to make the situation better, to actually change the circumstances or suggest ways for the asexual to change them. All anyone can do is help the celibate asexual make as much peace with the way things are as they can and instill some sense of hope that maybe one day, that individual will find at least one other person who can relate to them in a satisfying way. And they can’t make promises.
And like I said, therapists are people too. They have normative upbringings and normative friends and normative families and normative sexual experiences. They go see mainstream movies and watch mainstream TV and read mainstream books and listen to mainstream music, all of which is saturated with sex and sexual romance and the supremacy of those things. Are they supposed to be professional and impersonal in session with a patient? Yes. But they aren’t infallible. They can’t just leave all of their personal opinions and experiences of humanity at the door of their office and approach each patient with total neutrality and a blank mind.
I haven’t had extensive experience with psychotherapy, but what I’ve had…. I once spoke to the head of health services at my college, when I was a freshman and deeply depressed and suicidal, and tried to explain being asexual and why I was in so much pain over the future of my friendships and my own future in terms of relationships, and I guess she thought she was being nice and sweet but in retrospect, she absolutely did not get it and was totally condescending to me. Following that, I had a therapist I saw on campus for a while who I really liked and who knew about my identity and who I talked to as I was going through relationship angst and bullshit, and he never once made a negative comment about my asexuality or my celibacy or my views of relationships….. But do I know for sure that he was as accepting as he seemed? No. I don’t know. Maybe he was sitting there the whole time thinking, “What the hell is wrong with this girl?” or “She’s just 18, she’ll have sex eventually and find out it’s great and live happily ever after in Normative Relationship Land.” I can never know what he was really thinking. If he was thinking dismissive thoughts, I appreciate that he kept them to himself, but…. My point is, I would never see a therapist again even if I was having psychological distress because I don’t trust them—they being sexual—and I don’t need my therapist of all people making me feel as if there’s something wrong with me and my relationship desires. No, thanks. If I have shit to deal with, I’ll deal with it on my own.
^this is an excellent description on why having a distress clause is not enough to counter the problematicness the DSM with regards to asexuality.
Simply put, the problem is that it can be difficult to separate distress from an actual problem from distress from society being dumb - whether you have an actual problem or not, if society is constantly telling you that you are broken, wrong, unnatural, then of course you will be distressed!
In addition, although ideally a diagnosis should only occur if the patient is distressed, all too often therapists will hear that a patient has no sexual attractions and simply conclude that they MUST be distressed - whether they actually are or not.
Consider the case of “ego-dystonic homosexuality”, which was what was in the DSM after simple homosexuality was removed as a mental disorder. Basically, it stated that homosexuality was only a problem if you were uncomfortable with it - but as was said before, many people are still uncomfortable with their homosexuality not because it’s any kind of disorder but because society is pretty f’d up and keeps telling them that they are broken, sinful, wrong. It was in fact later removed from the DSM - for reasons that may be understandable.
(And for what it’s worth, there’s a lot of other pretty screwed up stuff about MHSDD and SIAD - consider the “situational” subtype which is characterized not by general lack of interest, but specifically lack of interest in a current relationship partner - which is really pretty much part of the normal spectrum of human behavior - sometimes they just aren’t that into you anymore. These “disorders” are also problematic in that they group together phenomena that are wildy different - lifelong general HSDD would be completely different than acquired situational HSDD, grouping them together as the same phenomenon is problematic. The fact that there’s no real scientific basis for this disorder (other than some spsychologists thinking it doesn’t seem “normal” certainly doesn’t help things either. )
FWIW, though, at least they’ve removed “interpersonal distress” as a qualifier - under previous versions of the DSM, you could technically be diagnosed just because your partner wanted more sex than you did. (which is rather ridiculous).
It’s rather long, but there’s an excellent discussion of the history DSM in dealing with non-normative sexual behaviors/identities (actual disorders or otherwise) here: http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/BIB/hinderliter2010.htm#_Toc272740746
my mom was apparently listening to this on her way to work XD
Why don’t we talk about romantic attraction, too? As a group effort between people who experience it and people who don’t, so that maybe we can piece together something that makes sense.
Here’s my contribution. I’m not writing it out again. :P
well, as someone who is (so far as I’ve been able to figure out) completely aromantic and generally oblivious to romance anyway, romantic attraction seems to be defined mostly as something that is an attraction or draw towards someone that is different (stronger?) than the types of affection one has for other friends or family members, but is not sexual. So…it’s usually defined in comparison to what it is not: It is not sexual, but it is also not the platonic affection that one feels towards friends and family.
In my case, the way I figured that I was aromantic was from the fact that, quite simply, I have never felt anything beyond what could be considered close friendship for anyone. I usually try to compare things to the kind of affection (presumably non-romantic) that I feel towards me sister, who I get along will with and am pretty close too. I also compare to my other friends in general - and though there is some variation in intensity and such, I have felt the same kind of emotions to all of these people, with nothing that seems “different” the way people describe romantic attraction to be.
I’ve also heard it described as the difference between “loving” and being “in love” - which makes sense to me, sort of.
Also, the concept of limerence is interesting to consider, although I consider it only one aspect of some kinds of romantic attraction, and it’s far form perfect. It may also be intersting to take a look at the triangular theory of love.
As for more specific, less theoretical descriptions that I have heard used to describe romantic attraction:
(keep in mind that these are not true for every person or every attraction)
-“butterflies” in the stomach, or general nervousness around the object of interest
-desire for a romantic relationship with this person
-jealousy
-thinking about them with unusual frequency
of course, someone who has actually experienced this firsthand may have a better idea.
However, I think part of the difficulty is that unlike sexual attraction (which has a more easily definable biological description), the idea of “romance” (as different form other kinds of romance or intimacy) is pretty much completely socially constructed, and as such what “romance” means can vary wildly from person to person - there is no single standard.
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We recently received this email.
“My name is David Seitz and I’m a freelance journalist based in Toronto. I’m writing a story for the Toronto branch of the LGBTQ publication Xtra! about asexual community and organizing. Asexuality has had a bit of visibility in Toronto media over the last few…
And y’know, sometimes I worry that bits and pieces of it are being lost? Because there are things that I know, as someone who has been around for a fairly long time and listened in a lot of spaces, that I think other people might not. I’m thinking here of things like the Non-Libidoists, who were an early asexual splinter group that set itself in opposition to AVEN and who indirectly influenced AVEN’s culture (fun fact: they used unicorns as their symbol, and I have seen aces years later saying they were uncomfortable using unicorns as a symbol because of that). Or the early history around the term “ace.” (I remember there used to be arguments on whether it should be spelled “ace” or “ase,” with people arguing very earnestly that they disliked “ace” because they felt it seemed too arrogant.) Or where the cake jokes came from. Stuff I remember either because I was around for them or because other people who were around told me when I asked.
I also wonder how much in the way of historical understanding of why particular asexual communities and institutions have formed the way they have is being passed down. I suppose being a largely Internet-based history helps a lot, in terms of retrieving important documents and conversations, but I do sometimes worry about the lack of historical resources for interested parties.
I do want to link here to Andrew Hinderliter’s fabulous set of posts on the history of defining “asexual” as we know it, and also to this graphic and AVEN post that has a truly fabulous timeline of some important historical events from the last ten years. Also interesting may be this post by someone who was heavily involved in the writing of AVEN’s FAQ. Anyone else have either cool resources or thoughts on this? Aside from Andrew’s work and the AVEN post linked in that timeline, I don’t think I’ve really seen a lot of discussion on creating a cohesive resource of asexual history that can be pointed to be people looking to learn more.
Well, I know there’s the Asexuality Archive being set up over here: http://www.asexualityarchive.com/
In addition, Hex has just joined us on the PT recently as PT historian, so sometime in the future we will probably start seeing some more results from that - they’ve also done some other cool history stuff on AVEN before, so I’ll have to dig up some of the links to that later.
I know there are actually a lot of bits and pieces of history recorded in various places in blogs, forums, in the wiki - I think the key is just gathering them all into one place.
AVEN Digest - 2nd April 2012
Visibility and Education:
AVENite Yolly successfully argued for asexual inclusion in the UK NUS LGBT campaign at their conference this weekend: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72800-asexuals-included-in-uk-nus-lgbt-campaign/
The GLBT Student Services Program at Auroria in Denver, Colorado is looking for an out ace person to help facilitate a discussion of asexuality on their campus: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72642-looking-for-asexuals-in-the-denver-area/
The interview with asexuals for Diva magazine has been published in this month’s issue: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/70474-diva-magazine-want-to-speak-to-asexual-women-who-identify-as-lesbian-or-bi-sexual/page__pid__2112208#entry2112208
endplusone has been giving lectures on asexuality at the University of Western Ontario: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72713-update-on-asexuality-lectures-uwo/
World Watch:
A freelance writer has created a blog post on asexuality in response to a recent media article: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72603-tolitasmusings-blog-post/
A number of Portuguese articles on asexuality have also come to light: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72673-folha-brazil/
A new article on asexuality has been published in The Atlantic: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72901-article-life-without-sex-the-third-phase-of-the-asexuality-movement/
Girls With Slingshots may have joined the list of webcomics with asexual characters: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72698-girls-with-slingshots/
Community:
AVENites in Perth, Australia, will be meeting up for a film night on Tuesday 3rd April: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72709-perth-movie-night-3rd-april-2012/
UK AVENites will be meeting up in Leeds on Saturday 7th April: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/70217-leeds-meet-saturday-7th-april-leeds-train-station-11-12/
Alternatively (or additionally, for some hardy folks), there will be another meet in Manchester, also on Saturday: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/71971-manchester-evening-meets/
Site News:
AVEN has undergone a Spring clean, including changes to the structure of the Terms of Service and various subforums: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72676-announcement-a-couple-changes/
The Gray Area, AVEN’s subforum for demisexuals and Grey-Asexuals, is now a permanent feature of the site after completing its probation period: http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?/topic/72702-the-grey-area-review-results/
So what is this black ring business? I’m game, but only if I can wear it on a chain around my neck like an ace Frodo Baggins.
Basically, people wear a black ring as a sort of ace pride symbol - it’s usually on the right middle finger, but people also do other things if they don’t like rings, can’t wear them or whatever - there’s no set rules, so do whatever you want!
And an asexy one ring would be cool…could you use it to summon cake to you?

